(The Daily Wire) Fox News host Martha MacCallum abruptly ended a contentious interview with Black Lives Matter leader Hawk Newsome on Tuesday after he refused to answer questions about whether looting is wrong.
by Staff Writer, August 19th, 2020
MacCallum asked Newsome if he agreed with the following recent statement by a Black Lives Matter leader in Chicago:
I don’t care if somebody decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy’s or a Nike because that makes sure that that person eats. That make sure that person has clothes. That’s reparations. That is reparations.
“Well, let’s, um, so we are moving on past Rudy Giuliani and moving into looting and a form of reparation. But let’s be very careful, Martha, let’s be very careful, and I’d appreciate if you let me speak,” Newsome responded. “Let’s be very careful. The problem with oppression and white supremacy is, white supremacy will have you criticizing the oppressed and worshiping the oppressors.”
“Now, if you want to talk to me about reparations, nothing falls short of a solution other than people cutting a check,” Newsome continued. “If you want to do something about reparations, cut the check. And we are not talking about going in every day Americans’ pockets, we are talking about banks like [inaudible] who benefited from slavery. Other insurance companies that sold insurance policies…”
“Alright, so you want to see reparations come from corporations. I asked you a question though, in fairness, Hawk, in fairness, okay,” MacCallum responded as Newsome repeatedly talked over her. “I listened to you, and now I want you to answer my question. Listen to me, sir. I asked you a question. Do you think, sir, do you think, do you agree, that it’s okay to go in and break the windows at Gucci’s or Macy’s or Nike because it makes sure that that person eats and that person has clothes. That was my question to you. Is that ethically okay to you?”
“Okay. Okay,” Newsome responded. “And before I answer that, I want to ask you this: Do you think it’s okay that America kills people in their homes like Breonna Taylor and our politicians do not do anything about it?”
“No, I don’t think that’s okay. Of course I don’t think that’s okay,” MacCallum snapped back. “No, but you don’t answer my question. … I’m trying to have a conversation. No one thinks that’s okay. … But you’re not answering my question which is whether or not it’s okay to take away people’s livelihoods because you deserve the stuff that’s in the broken window, okay? There’s two different issues here, and I wish you would answer my question, which you said you would but didn’t.”
“Do you think it’s okay for a country to profit off the backs of slaves and to pay reparations to other peoples and deny black people reparations?” Newsome responded.
At that point MacCallum ended the interview.
WATCH:
BlackLivesMatter of NY’s @IamHawkNewsome refuses to condemn rioting/looting, let alone even answer the question directly: “Do you think it’s OK for a country to profit off of slaves?" [via @marthamaccallum] pic.twitter.com/TtoqHv4wBl
— Tom Elliott (@tomselliott) August 19, 2020
TRANSCRIPT:
FOX NEWS HOST MARTHA MACCALLUM: The Black Lives Matter movement has become a big issue in 2020 as some Democrats embrace it at this week’s Democratic convention. Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani was with us last night and he issued this condemnation of the larger Black Lives Matter movement.
RUDY GIULIANI: The president should consider carefully declaring Black Lives Matter a domestic terrorist organization. … They were basically engaged in stealing. So, this is an illegal organization and their intent is to overthrow our government.
MACCALLUM: Joining me now is Hawk Newsome, President and co-founder of Black Lives Matter of greater New York, which is its own individual organization. Hawk Newsome, thank you for being here tonight. First of all, let’s start with your reaction to what the former mayor of New York City had to say last night.
HAWK NEWSOME: Well, it’s funny, you phrase it, the former mayor of New York City and the reason why it’s funny is because nobody liked Rudy Giuliani as a mayor. There were actually high t-shirt sales of t-shirts that said ‘F Giuliani’ on them. No one liked Giuliani. 9/11 happened and he handled it with class and he became a national figure. But what has mayor Giuliani done since 9/11 except run his mouth? How is Rudolph Giuliani benefited America? This man’s children don’t even like him. He is nothing but a blowhard who runs his mouth.
MACCALLUM: Alright, I don’t want to make it personal.
NEWSOME: It is personal when you talk about him because he is trying to define peaceful, sometimes, most of the time peaceful protesters as terrorists. If he wanted to talk about terrorism he would talk about the KKK, who is responsible for bloodshed over hundreds of years, who have blown up churches with little girls inside.
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MACCALLUM: Understood, that was terrorism and I hear what you’re saying. I also want to point out, I don’t want to get personal about Rudy Giuliani and his family, that doesn’t get us anywhere I don’t think in this conversation, but there were a lot of people who thought he was a very good mayor and especially as you point out after 9/11, so we let everybody have their own opinions about that, be that as it may.
NEWSOME: Yeah, but the thing is he’s talking about mothers and fathers who are out there protesting. He’s talking about black people and white people out there fighting for our rights of every human being. For equity, for human rights and he’s calling us terrorists. But I’ve never seen him take a hard stand against white supremacy.
MACCALLUM: I think he was talking about people who loot and people who ruin the businesses of people who built them for years and years. And I just want to play one sound bite, he talked about stealing–
NEWSOME: So when America goes and steals diamonds and oils, who’s calling us terrorists when the American government goes and pillages different countries? Who is calling us terrorists?
MACCALLUM: Okay, but you’re saying, are you saying that if that’s okay, it’s okay to steal and loot because of those other things that have also happened, which are also bad? I want to play this, Ariel Atkins, Black Lives Matter Chicago, talking about looting. And I want you tell me what you think about what she says.
ARIEL ATKINS: I don’t care if somebody decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy’s or a Nike because that makes sure that that person eats. That make sure that person has clothes. That’s reparations. That is reparations.
MACCALLUM: Do you agree with Ariel Atkins on that?
NEWSOME: Well, let’s, um, so we are moving on past Rudy Giuliani and moving into looting and a form of reparation. But let’s be very careful Martha, let’s be very careful, and I’d appreciate if you let me speak. Let’s be very careful. The problem with oppression and white supremacy is, white supremacy will have you criticizing the oppressed and worshiping the oppressors. Now, if you want to talk to me about reparations, nothing falls short of a solution other than people cutting a check. If you want to do something about reparations, cut the check. And we are not talking about going in every day American’s pockets, we are talking about banks like [inaudible] who benefited from slavery. Other insurance companies that sold insurance policies on.
[CROSS TALK]
MACCALLUM: Alright, so you want to see reparations come from corporations. I asked you a question though, in fairness, Hawk, in fairness, okay. I listed to you and now I want you to answer my question. Listen to me, sir. I asked you a question. Do you think, sir, do you think, do you agree, that it’s okay to go in and break the windows at Gucci’s or Macy’s or Nike because it makes sure that that person eats and that person has clothes. That was my question to you. Is that ethically okay to you?
NEWSOME: Okay. Okay. And before I answer that, I want to ask you this: Do you think it’s okay that America kills people in their homes like Breonna Taylor and our politicians do not do anything about it?
MACCALLUM: No, I don’t think that’s okay. Of course I don’t think that’s okay. No, but you don’t answer my question. … I’m trying to have a conversation. No one thinks that’s okay. … But you’re not answering my question which is whether or not it’s okay to take away people’s livelihoods because you deserve the stuff that’s in the broken, okay? There’s two different issues here and I wish you would answer my which you said you would but didn’t
[CROSS TALK]
NEWSOME: Do you think it’s okay for a country to profit off the backs of slaves and to pay reparations to other peoples and deny black people reparations?
MACCALLUM: Okay, you don’t want to answer questions about looting and stealing and broken windows, so–
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